New V - Design status and 3D internals!

[Dario]

Hello community!

So the results are in and we now have a winning concept and winning features ready to share

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Now we can dig into the post!

We had three concepts…

Let’s have a quick recap. In the previous design post, we presented three product-ideas: Powerhouse, Workhorse and Better-Up.

With these concepts came several questions to gain deeper understanding not only of which concept was the overall best, but also all the reasons behind it. This is something very important for us to understand, in order to have a clear focus on what to prioritize, and what to invest in during product development. In fact, there will be many occasions in which we will have to choose one detail over another, and all the knowledge we can get to help us make those decisions is extremely valuable.

WORKHORSE is the winner

The survey results and the comments have been great, and among the three concepts we had one solid winner: WORKHORSE.

In this concept, we presented a very functional look, focusing on a very practical approach to features and details. Here’s a reminder of all the parts and features:

It is important to underline that in this design there are some features that did not match the community’s preferences, and the poll results showed it. In particular, when asking about the fingerprint reader and volume buttons it became clear that some changes are required to perfect Workhorse. The fingerprint reader should be integrated in the power button again, and a volume rocker is better instead of two separate buttons for up and down.

In the following days, we will keep digging through your comments to make sure we are not missing any must-haves, not only from Workhorse but also from the other two concepts. As seen during the development of the original V and Spectrum, features from other concepts can be implemented to create the best product in the end.

3D puzzle

The main task at the moment is fit all the parts together in the right spot to make things function, while also guaranteeing a great final look of the product. For instance, having ports at the bottom as was popular in the Workhorse design will probably require the main circuit board to be at the bottom of the device. But because this is also where the kickstand goes, it can increase the overall thickness of the our new V. But that is just of the many challenges we are facing, which is why we’re exploring different internal layouts to find the sweet spot.

Now, the key focus is to actively push our partners and suppliers. We need to carefully investigate what is possible, what is not, and where compromises might be needed. After all, we cannot solve this 3D puzzle if we don’t have all the pieces, or if some of the pieces have the wrong shape!

We’ve seen some replies from community members who have made their own 3D files to try and work these things out. You guys are amazing!

Because we want to encourage you to keep sharing your layout ideas for the internals, we’ve decided to make available some of the so-called ‘stacks’ we received for review from our engineering team. These are preliminary models of possible internal layouts, that serve as conversation starters as we work with them to fit our views for functionality and looks into a single design. Some components will still be missing, and the level of detail is low, but feel free to dig in! We think it may be fun for anyone who is interested in component sizes, tolerances, airflow, etc. Enjoy!

Click here to download the 3D files of the internals in STEP-format!

From here…

• Together with our suppliers, we will develop a feasible internal architecture for the device that reflects the community’s wishes as much as possible.
• We will further develop the industrial design of the Workhorse concept, implementing changes requested by the community.
• We will kick off the design process of the keyboard cover to guarantee a perfect match with the device.

Talk soon!!

[Techmo]

While all three were good concepts, Workhorse was my favorite. I agree that some parts of it will need to be tweaked in order to perfect the design. I think we’re heading in the right direction!

[arkery]

General Impressions once I opened the files:

• Files 1, 3 and 5 have the motherboard at the bottom therefore the ports at the bottom
• Files 2 and 4 have the motherboard on top therefore ports are on top
• Files 4 and 5 have a fan, so a higher power CPU? And good gosh that fan component is huge.
• Webcam and mic is missing

Now details:

I’m not gonna touch files 4 and 5 since all of these are low detailed so I have no idea if the motherboard size/height can be reduced feasibly. That fan is seriously eating space that could have been a battery which concerns me.

The side bezel is big at 14.8mm (again, low detail so forgivable). But it’s covering the side ports.

So…

Why not raise the entire display panel by 2mm. Like seriously, making the jump from Eve’s original 8.9 mm thickness to 11 is not gonna hurt anyone. You can then reduce the bezel without hitting the controllers for the USB and other ports.

File 1 and File 3 are basically the same thing except the heat dissipation (I assume that’s what it is) is bigger on File 3.

My take on the internal layout:

But first, compromises:

• Get rid of one USB-A Port. It solves a bunch of problems with the internal layout, Especially since we now have a full SD Card slot. I personally only need 1 USB-A port and anything else I have a bunch of adapters for USB-C
• If the entire device is servicable then we can use regular half-sized SSD’s. If I recall correctly, the first Eve used some Intel Server SSD’s. Using a regular version could save costs.

Changes:

• All ports are moved to the bottom.
• Removed one USB-A Port, gives space for a bigger battery and moves the SD Card to the bottom.
• Side bezels reduced (From 14.8mm to at 7-10mm | Edit: I finally was able to measure it in real life)
• Display panel is moved up by 2mm
• I presume that the bright neon green is a wifi-card. So moved it on top while using a half sized ssd.
• The kickstand hinge is moved further to the side (Surface Pro kickstand hinges are near the sides so it is possible)
• Acoustic chambers are moved above of the kickstand hinges now that we’ve moved the ports to the bottom
• I’ve added a PCB on top of the battery to represent the mics, webcam, etc. Move the side buttons (power, volume, etc.) to the top edge instead of using the side. That streamlines certain things.
• The battery is wider and taller since we’ve freed up the ports on the top and increased how far the display panel is from the body.

I’m going to take back on a previous statement I made on me liking symmetrical bezels. I like them if they aren’t thick (a la iPad Pro). Otherwise, the Surface Pro X’s bezels are a suitable substitute. I haven’t touched the top or bottom bezel in this concept. → Regarding the keyboard, I have a few ideas I can propose if the bottom bezel is becomes too thin for keyboard lift.

Again, files were really low detailed but this is a really good start. Maybe offer more detailed files next time?

Also, how much can the motherboard be reduced in terms of surface area?

[Bexin]

Hi, I think that there might be a big problem with this concept, and that is bending. 3D design of internal looks like there is no place for stronger construction. Eve V as concepts suggests is going to be made from aluminium, and there were some thin aluminium products that were easily bending (iPads…) But I am quite concerned if eve v is not going to be easy to break. This is how iPads are breaking

Aluminium part just bends breaks, even the whole back of iPad. And this is how eve V could. possibly bend

That yellow “line” is part where two different materials are meeting so it will (probably) be weaker. Than there is just part marked by red line where aluminium will be stronger, so it will be maybe easier to bend Internal structure (at least 4 of 5 concepts) have no heat pipes or even any components coming through this area inside of eve V so there is nothing stopping eve V from bending. There is just PCB, screen place where two materials overlay and small part of aluminum on side. I am not. sure. if this is not going to cause some issues

[Lore_Wonder]

To start with, I am pleased that a serviceable 2280 SSD slot has been adopted into these 3D models because it has the top priority on my list of features.

I hope the size of kickstand strap becomes as small as possible, to clear ways for more components on the motherboard. The current 36mm hinge is much longer than that of the Surface Pro. Also, I noticed the Surface Pro’s kickstand has two adhesive tabs in the middle. I wonder if the new V’s kickstand has anything similar occupying some space in the middle of the device. It does not show up on any of the 3D models; thus, perhaps there are no tabs needed.

It could be an excellent idea to offload soldered components onto the back of the motherboard to make space for serviceable parts. For example, 2019 13" MacBook Pro has its (all of the following components are soldered) NFC module, power controllers, 2*2GB Samsung memory, Toshiba storage, Audio codec, and WiFi & Bluetooth module on the back of its motherboard. See the 2019 13" MacBook Pro motherboard back image: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/T6cxnDRh1QMOKeny.full (Source: ifixit.com). The new V has a lot of serviceable parts; therefore, this arrangement can save valuable space.

Putting the SSD slot close to the CPU or even right against it is viable, as demonstrated by the ThinkPad X1 Carbon 6th Gen. See X1 Carbon 6th Gen motherboard image: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/gKGOsT4HG5FBIaso.full (Source: ifixit.com). Not counting the fan space of this X1 Carbon, it shares a very similar footprint to the new V’s motherboard, and it even left an empty 3042 LTE slot. Therefore I believe there is almost always some potential exists if we persistently innovate. Dual 2280 SSD slots may sound like a dream, but similarly, the PC itself was a dream before it became widely available.

I believe we should not sacrifice user-friendly features like two USB-A ports, full-sized SSD slot(s) as cost-saving measures. Although the launch price might be lower, the device will lose these unique features that competing products lack.

@Bexin I never try to bend my hard-earned iPad Pro 11". The same thing applies to the new V if I have it. As long as the new V can suffer less damage when dropped accidentally, I am satisfied with its durability.

Keep the fantastic work! You have made such a head start!

Fell free to post your ideas in my 2-in-1 design topic if you think they are yet to appear in the development discussion or they are a bit out of the scope of the new V. I am delighted to hear your thoughts.

[Bexin]

I am just scared that it will be too easily bendable, people who tried to bend it told that they did not have to use too much force, but bigger problem is that some iPads even bend when they were in backpack. (it required too small force to bend) I hope that eve will find some solution to make solid construction. I do not think that anyone wants their devices to bend, but problem is when it can happen by really small accidents.

[Yashlg97]

The iPad has 3 inherent design flaws as highlighted by Zack himself.

1. It’s too thin for a device of its size. At 5.9mm, its literally thinner than any phone released since that time.
2. Placement of the far field mics right on the midpoint of that edge. Need I say more? Its effectively a crack propagation point
3. Use of a plastic charging contact on the midpoint of the other edge. Again, the area where the plastic is inserted is an induced defect in the material.
   All these together are a recipe for something to fail if you try and bend it. As far as I can see, the V should be ok. Zack also did a bend test on a Surface Pro, and that came out unscathed. So, I feel quite confident in the V’s design.

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@arkery

making the jump from Eve’s original 8.9 mm thickness to 11 is not gonna hurt anyone

I absolutely agree with this! I mean the new iPhones and Galaxies launching these days are pushing 9mm so I don’t think many people should have a problem with an 11mm 2-in-1. All the added benefits it brings such as the thinner bezels and more room for cooling and batteries would be more welcome by everyone using the device.

[pauliunas]

Let me remind you that 15mm bezel is actually really small for such a big tablet not because they can’t make them smaller but because you use them to get a firm grip

[adt]

@arkery

Side bezels reduced (From 14.8mm to at 7-10mm

Even though I follow the threads… I am not clear…
Is this what you propose or is this in the workhorse concept?

One of the few things I do NOT like with the current (“old”) V, is the thick bezels.
I would largely prefer thinner (not beyond 8mm, rather 5) bezels to a thin device. I have to say I hold the current V at his kickstand… is maybe dangerous?

[Slimp]

Hello. Is new device have Thunderbolt 3 support?
I want use eGPU with it =)

[Rumpelstilzchen]

Absolutely agree that 11 mm is very acceptable.

[arkery]

If you open the Step files above, you can measure the side bezel length. Currently it’s set to 14.8 mm on the sides. I’ve been able to reduce it to 7.7 mm after raising the display panel in Fusion but for general grip and ergonomics, 8-10 mm seems better.

General side note for Eve:

If we are to make it thicker because the motherboard is at the bottom, then we should also raise the display panel to make the bezel thinner anyways.

Also for cooling, the fans in the Step files seems to be configured for negative pressure (Fan shoves air out of the chassis). Therefore it seems the fans are always on top of the tablet which constantly compromises the battery size.

Consider have a fan (if necessary) that creates positive pressure (Air intake) placed at the bottom when the kickstand is open. Then allow air to naturally rise up via slightly forced convection through vents placed on the side bezels and the top frame of the chassis.

Remember that when the tablet is in kickstand mode, it is not placed at a straight 90 degree angle since it is always leaning onto the tablet.

Slight reminder:

This can probably be achieved if we use smaller acoustic chambers unless the engineers can verify that said acoustic chambers will allow some airflow to the sides.

I can probably make renders and a thermal study later when I have time. (Although it’ll be nice if you guys already have more detailed step files for that )

Regardless, I’m hoping that we can achieve a somewhat over-engineered passive cooling method before we resort to fans, especially if we can use 15W CPU’s. A heat pipe from the CPU that connects to a thin vapor chamber located above or below the battery area (The Surface Pro’s do this) is feasible.

We could (maybe?) also even make the entire back plate behind the kickstand out of copper. Give it some sort of oxidization agent to make it black to match exterior aesthetics. The top portion of Workhorse is plastic anyways so I shouldn’t be too worried about the added weight from additional copper right?

Side side note:
Ever considered making a slack/discord group for all of us to join? Have it so we can have shorter and more direct conversations while longer discussions are used by the forums.

[c3me]

Great to see a practical design, but please prioritise engineering requirements for superior function over design aesthetics: a thicker design to allow airflow / thermals is more important than symmetry. Please don’t make the MacBook Pro / keyboard mistake: a lovely thin laptop, but poor thermals & poor keyboard reliability. Thanks and keep up the great work.

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@arkery agree with the Slack suggestion

[sinistergates154]

i would like a more powerful actively cooled device but i think it could be feasible to make both a powerful one sacrificing a little battery and a passively cooled one with Y series CPU.

i like the render but with the intake/exhaust on the screen side your more likely to cover the vents with your palms. i don’t think anyone will be doing anything that is particularly demanding when its in tablet mode. but if you’re quickly transitioning then it could be a problem. it would also cut off the air flow if you close the device with the touch cover while its still working.
if they were in the same location but on the back i think they would be more out of the way.

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@arkery i agree discord would be great to shoot smaller ideas around

[jozedwardo]

I am super excited about getting my hands on some 3D, I think this step is epic!

Is it possible for you to upload the Rhino files? It would be nice to keep the layer structure and block definitions as intended.

[keithhubb]

I will definitely be doing DEMANDING tasks with the new V. I need it to run VMWare Workstation and Virtual Box with several VM’s operating. I need it to work with CAD software. I also run things like GIT, Docker, Kubernetes, Ansible, Vagrant, heavily use Windows System for Linux, stock charting, video/photo editing applications. Not all at the same time, but I have grandiose needs in a light portable package.

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YES!! Awesome choice. I love the forward facing speakers, but I hope you get the amp levels adjusted better. When you integrate the fingerprint reader with the power button, please keep it on top to prevent accidental presses when adjusting volume. Please fix the issues with the keyboard, so many frustrations with the left shift button there. Also, consider centering the track pad on the space bar, not the physical width of the keyboard, which minimizes the palm touches like the current V. I also hope you figure out the ghost screen pressing issues that we see on the V.

Many, many thanks for the current V. It was a huge achievement, and this version will be even better! I’m so in!

[Pseudomax]

I already own the first V a0nd have the i7 1TB model. With the current lockdown I have had a lot more working from home on it … one thing that would be very useful is an LED light next to the camera to allow better quality video in low lit environments (particularly if you are not planning a much better camera).

[mcalbala]

Well, it had to happen. I love the design, but something that happens eventually is the eyes require a larger screen. So I went a different direction, something that is heaver but replaces both a laptop and desktop. So I am running the Asus Zenbook Pro Duo with an Intel Core i-9 9980 and of course attached to my 80 terabyte private cloud.
I wish you guys alot of luck, and if I had to make one recommendation it is to have the CPU on some sort of daughterboard so you can replace it as new technologies come out. The disk is already NVME, so that is not changing. The internals are already 64 bit devices so that is pretty stable. The only thing which can be argued is the Wifi card, which will undoubtedly go to WiFi 6E at some point, the battery which will go to solid state lithium at some point (the first ones are finally on the market) and the memory will undoubtedly be too slow for future generations of processors. But all of this is upgradable, and if the memory aned CPU are on a daughterboard, they are field swappable in concept. That is what the NUCs were supposed to be instead of growing into full feature PCs in compact cases.

Heat continues to be the enemy of small PCs and even though the 10th generation Intel chips do better at heat management, they still throttle. A little more venting might be advisable. Look at the problems Dell is constantly plagued with because of their heat management and learn from it.

[Kantholz]

i’m fine with this design

[naulapaa]

I should think so. At least I’m using Lenovo TB3 Graphics Dock (GTX 1050 eGPU) with my “old” V.